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Does anyone know if Victor's Melangeur are for sale yet?... I've tried to message him a couple of times now.

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Dear All.
The machine is ready and we are processing several contracts.
Currently we have also made a batch of few machines, for which control
cabinets will be done according to customer's requirements.
(One is ready assembled for 220V 1 phase) for rest it will take 1,5-2 months
for cabinet assembling. So next 3 new orders can be done in 2 months instead
of standard 4 month lead time.
The machine is made of 304 food grade stainless steel and stones and base of
hard granite all precise laser cut.
So, we have got a Heavy Duty machine for Professional production of up to 80
kg batches of chocolate.

For any additional technical information you can visit our site
http://www.kudvic.com/en/oborudovanie.html

 Kind regards,
Victor Kudryavtsev
http://www.kudvic.com
https://www.youtube.com/user/Kudvic/videos?view=0&sort=dd&l...
=list
https://www.facebook.com/Kudvic2

Hi,

How much will these machines cost?

PRICE
Ex-Works Moscow, Russia USD 25 000

Ouch!

That's pricey!

Could you please let me know on what basis you have made such a conclusion?

Hi Victor,

$25,000 is a lot more expensive than existing melangers from CocoaTown and Santha--around 5 times as expensive. I'd say that qualifies as pricey. :)

From the videos on your youtube account, your melanger looks is impressive. The motorized stone lifting and bowl tilting are very handy, but I'm not sure they're worth $20k.

Can you give more information on why it is so much more than its competitors and discuss what improvements you've made?

Also, and forgive me if this is already on the Chocolate Life somewhere, but what is the capacity of your melanger?

-Ben

Dear Ben,
-The max volume of one batch in our melangeur is up to 80kg (80/0,454=176 pounds)
-Our melangeur has independent suspension on each granite stone wheel with pressure of each maintained by the pneymatic cylinder of 100mm.
This cylinder generates the force at 6bar of 475 kg, that together with the weight of the wheel (50 kg) gives the total pressure of more than 500 kg per each grinding stone, totalling to 1000kg per two. The pressure is adjusted by changing the pressure via reducer. The pheumo cylinder has additional function - as shock absorber when the excessive clumps of raw material get under the granite stone, which is important on the loading phase.
The shaft is fixed in the stones without any plastic spacer which would be desintegrated quickly at such pressure force. The shaft rotates with the stones and is fixed on both sides with the slide bearings.
- The bowl, as 95% of the parts of the machine is manufactured of food grade stainless steel 304 AISI. The bottom of the bowl of the machine is made of 8mm stainless steel, from outside the drive shaft is connected, and on the inside the solid granite disc of diameter 600mm (23.62 inch) and 30mm (1.18inch) thick is fixed.
- The drive of 3 kwt (4 ph) is used with a big turning torque, which allows to make the loading without fear of stopping the the bowl of overloading the drive.
- We use Siemens electronic components.
- The material of the wheels and base - Hard Dencity Granite, made from the solid stone on CNC machine ensuring high precision.

Unfortunately, the self-cost of our melangeur a few times higher than 5000 usd and we cannot sell it less than 25 000 USD by economical reasons.

Our melangeur was developed and manufactured for internal use for our own projects. After i have shown our melangeur on Youtube we started getting many enquires.
After some time of contemplation i decided to allow it to be sold on the market.

About indian melangeurs, i have used Santana 11s but besides break downs discovered that it is equipped with some soft stone, or some artificial composite.
That was demonstrated to me by the stone expert when he could pry off some pieces of stone on the side of it. It would be impossible to do on the granite as it is stronger than steel.
- By the way - does anyone know what exact this material is?

We have contacted the mentioned companies for the 65 pound melangeur details. But besides the price that was different than 5000 usd and was closer to 10 thousand did not receive any technical information that i was requesting. This was the reason that made me think of developing own melangeur.

This machine is designed for professional quality and reliability and there are people that are looking for this as in any other product.

P.S. about pricey or cheap. For the years in business i am used to the understanding that if the equipment pays off within 1-3 years it is acceptable.
If we look from this perspective to our melangeur, then it can pay off within one month if the following is taken: One load of 75 kg (~170lbs) is produced and conched in 48 hours,
making totally ~ 1125 kg (~2480lbs)/month. if the finished product is positioned as super premium at level of 100 usd/kg the monthly production on this melangeur at this cost in finished product may total as 112 500 usd. I fully understand all conventionality of such an "on a napkin" calculation, but this also makes us realize if one wants to spare on the quality of professional tools and equipment.

There is always a cheaper product, material, component, but compromising with quality or materials or components is not in our policy.
We have taken best proven components and materials and implemented in a heavy duty and reliable and handy to use professional tool that also guaranteed does not wear off any material in the artisan chocolate, even in the small quantities. And many are appreciating and want all these properties in the machine of a different level.

Hello.

This appears to be the best break through in technology for craft chocolate makers.  The price point is reasonable when calculated on a cost/kg processed.  It is no different than a Cocoatown as their prices have rapidly increased - close to $10K per unit now.

I would like to understand what (if any) certifications that are planned.  In the US, it can be difficult to use equipment that is not UL listed or NSF certified.  CE approvals can be used if you can convince your local health department.

Thank-you,

Paul Picton

Dear Paul, thank you for your message.

Yes, the price of 1kg of average (not maximum) batch is 25 000/75=333.33 USD. If CocoaTown 30kg melangeur costs 33*30=9990 USD then the price is equal.
The Kudvic Melangeur passed certification in Russian Federal accreditation agency "Rosaccreditazia" and is listed in state registry of conformity declatations under the number 
TC № RU D-RU.Аi30.В.00900 от 30.09.2013i conforms to requirements:ТР ТС 004/2011 "Low voltage equipment safety", ТР ТС 010/2011 "Machines and equipment safety" ;ТР ТС 020/2011 " Electromagnetic compatibility of technical means" and certificate is valid till 26.09.2018. For export we provide Form A certificate of origin for EU and USA from Chamber of Commerce of Russia.
All metal body parts of the machine is made of food grade stainless steel AISI 304.
Victor

Further to Ben's reply below, the conche/refiners I use in my shop have been in operation 24/7 for 5 years, don't use granite wheels, are completely gear driven, make 45 litres of AMAZING smooth chocolate per batch, and are 1/4th the price - about $6,000 PER MACHINE.

 

I'd say yours are priced about $19,000 too high.

Dear Brad,
Before switching to 5 roll refiners, the first time i started using refiner conches (Macintyre 3000liter as well as smaller ones later) in 1995 at my first factory.
We chose this brand as it is known that asian refiner conches have inner linings and bars of not very wear resistant steel, versus Macintyre, which uses special grade hardened steel and grinding paddles made of slightly softer hard metal, as well as they are made in special shape and form of the grinding area, which not always can be copied by other companies. 
 To grind chocolate from crystal sugar on Macintyre down to 25-35 microns (by hand micrometer) it takes more than 18-20 hours. Producing chocolate with fineness of 18-20 micronsis  practically impossible on these machines.
 Also it is known that the refiner conche best can grind the big particles and very bad the small ones. The ball mills work quite the opposite, badly grinding the big parts and nicely- the small ones. That is why i was using for example the 3000L refiner conche in a circulation with Wiener ball mill with 1800 kg of balls, which allowed to reach the fineness of 20-22 microns (or 92-94% of the particles less than 35 microns  by our lab Sympatec laser particle size analyser) in just 5 hours of circulaiton. In this case after refiner conche, ballmill, after holding tank we installed filters with extra strong natural magnets to catch all metall particles.

 Approximately 3 years ago i was invited for consulting support for one factory. And one of the issues was that their new metal detector would give alarm on the chocolate, but the tasting could not determine any particles of metal.  One of the lines was equipped with a chinese 500L refiner conche. It gave such a serious metal contamination of the chocolate  that the metal detector would not allow it to pass, and if they did not have detection they would not know of this untill today. After installing the powerful magnet filter we were shocked of what we regularily saw.  As was recommended, the chinese refiner conche was disposed and a used in good condition Macintyre conche together with a Wiener ball mill installed. This solved the issue for them.
But the level of metal saturation of the product is the main concern of my special attention to the material of the refiner'conches lining and bars as  refiner conches out of all grinding machines are most metal emmitting equipment. I hope the strong magnet filters are used after each refiner conche, as one must see what they catch to get concenrned of filtering and of the quality of machines.

 As opposed to metal grinders (such as ballmills, refiner-conches and other (of which the 5 roll refiners are least contaminating because of rolling process of grinding) 
 - Granite mills are depriving and dispossessing the chocolate of metal or other unknown wearing soft composites.

 This may not be important for economy product and big industry, this is critical for premium chocolate, and even more for artisanal and specialty flavoured chocolates, or chocolate that one gives to his kids.
 This is already a significant for me reason that forced of thinking of creating granite grinders. As mentioned, it is very easy to create a cheap machine for which it is obvious one uses cheap materials, but our aim was to make an absolute contamination free, handy to use professional heavy duty machine for many years of greate and safe performance. Many people find this very important now and need such a machine.
 All the more that the humanity used stones for grinding for thousands of years, and  only maybe last 100 years started using metal grinders :-)

Victor;

It's evident that you know what you are talking about technically. 

However from a purely business perspective you are missing one focal point, which, if you ignore it will cause your product to be a major flop.

 

That focal point is your target market.  You are trying to sell a product to a customer base that simply doesn't have $20,000 (don't forget shipping/duty/taxes costs) to spend on a machine that makes a VERY small amount of chocolate!

Think about this for a second:  Who is your main competitor in this market? It's the Cocoatown machine.  It's 1/4 of the price, and also uses stones for grinding.

With regard to whether or not chinese conche/refiners impart metal into the chocolate.... well... THAT my friend, depends on who is operating the machine.  I can refine dark chocolate in my conche/refiners in 9 hours, and it will be fabulously smooth.  However, this means having the blades put a lot of pressure on the sides of the machines.  This causes wear very quickly and will obviously impart microscopic metal shavings into the chocolate.

There is also another very significant problem to this quick refining:  oxidation.  Simply put, it doesn't happen.  Fabulous quality chocolate is NOT made in 12-18 hours.  Period.  Oxidation and flavour development takes time, and it doesn't matter if you're grinding with stones or steel.

The bottom line is this:  You might very well have designed the Ferrari of conche refiners.  However how many small business owners buy the Ferrari as their first vehicle, and how many of those will buy YOUR Ferrari after they outgrow the volume their old beat up Ford Pinto (and your Ferrari) creates?

As harsh as this sounds, I suspect that you haven't done your demographic homework and as a result have a very expensive boat anchor on your hands.

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