Raw Chocolate Machines?

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Nat on May 4, 2011 at 2:23am

This is a pretty controversial area right now and most raw chocolate makers are making their chocolate by reconstituting "raw" cocoa powder and "raw" cocoa powder into chocolate. I know of no one making raw chocolate from the bean right now due to the food born pathogen concerns as you're skipping the pathogen-killing roasting step.

 

-Nat

____________________

Nat Bletter, PhD

Chocolate R&D

Madre Chocolate

http://madrechocolate.com  

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Permalink Reply by Brad Churchill on May 4, 2011 at 5:33pm

Nat;

 

What do you mean by "raw'" cocoa powder?  My understanding of the process of making cocoa powder is that the beans are roasted and crushed into paste before being pressed into cake and then ground into cocoa powder.  If this is the case, then technically cocoa powder isn't raw either.

 

That doesn't even take into account the alkalization process that cocoa powder goes through.

 

I would love to understand this better.  It seems as though the "raw" movement is even more deceptive than the whole "big chocolate" industry put together.

 

Thanks in advance for your reply.

 

Brad.

Choklat

 

EDIT:  I just read this detailed article on raw chocolate on another site that I frequent.  Very interesting read...  http://chocolatealchemy.com/the-truth-about-raw-chocolate

 

 

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Permalink Reply by Nat on May 7, 2011 at 6:42am

Hi Brad,

 

That's exactly why I put "raw" in quotes, since I don't think the way the powder or butter is produced conforms to the common notion of raw foods not going above 115° F. But there are no regulations or labeling laws about using the word "raw" on products so people can call whatever they want raw in the US. Is it different in Canada? I agree it is deceptive or people are deluding themselves to think everything they're eating is raw.

 

Don't even get me started on people who claim they are eating raw cashews! I did that once mistakenly from a fresh cashew apple and I had blistered lips for weeks since I had basically eaten the same oil as on poison ivy. So a raw cashew is very toxic and I would never want to eat one again. Luckily no one actually sells truly raw cashews.

 

From what I gather, at least the "raw" cacao powders are not alkalized as that would kill off just about every little last bit of antioxidants.

 

-Nat

____________________

Nat Bletter, PhD

Chocolate R&D

Madre Chocolate

http://madrechocolate.com 

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Permalink Reply by Iván Andrade on May 5, 2011 at 9:13am

Hi, If you want to get quality products, this is the basic equipment needed for producing commercial raw chocolate products, hope this helps you.

DRYER COCOA: Cocoa Dryer, removable, made ​​of polished stainless steel walls with thermal insulation. Tol perforated stainless steel floor of the dryer. Drying capacity of 40 kilograms per batch. Heating system with propane gas through low power consumption. 

FILING OF COCOA: Cocoa Rotary Classifier 4 quality single phase motor 110 and 220 volts classification capacity of 10 pounds per hour ventilation system to expel dirt and debris; Manufactured iron rolled double-layer anti-corrosive paint and galvanized tool.

TOASTER COCOA: Cocoa Rotary Toaster, inoxidable304L made ​​entirely of steel, with cooling jacket in 2mm thick stainless steel, Single phase motor 110 and 220 volt load 1 quintal roasting time load 40 minutes, heating system gas, with manual sampling toasted chamber temperature gauge built hatch for loading and unloading of cocoa vent. $ 5,820.00

GRINDER CLEANER AND SHELL: Made of steel roller inoxidable304 L, and galvanized tool with built-in fans and ability to process 3 or 4 pounds per hour; Motor single phase of 110 and 220 volt.

MILLS COCOA: Cocoa mills operating in line, and constructed entirely of stainless steel 304 L for food with hydraulic cooling system, System grinding discs hardened stainless steel, the grinding capacity of 1 quintal per hour single-phase motor 110 and 220 volt

Estimated price USD $ 42.000

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Permalink Reply by Brad Churchill on May 5, 2011 at 5:43pm

Ivan;

 

Excuse me for pointing out the obvious, but a cocoa roaster (you call it a "toaster"), COOKS the beans thereby rendering them no longer raw.

 

Brad

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Permalink Reply by Iván Andrade on May 6, 2011 at 11:40am

Hi Brad,

Dry cocoa beans can be peeled by hand, as do farmers in many areas, but large quantities are roasted in a rotating drum, then the cocoa beans is struck against the walls to peel it, however that, the product remains raw material because it contains all elements in nature.

Iván.

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Permalink Reply by Brad Churchill on May 7, 2011 at 1:50am

We're BOTH correct, but more clarification is needed.

 

You are referring to "raw" as unprocessed, while I'm referring to "raw" as uncooked.

 

If I'm not mistaken, Jaakko is referring to "raw" as uncooked, as he refers to "commercial raw chocolate products" and "massive amounts of commercial chocolate".  The way I understand his post is that he is looking for equipment to make UNCOOKED chocolate products for human consumption, and not individual ingredients which, when combined, make up chocolate.

 

Cheers.

Brad.

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Permalink Reply by cheebs on May 7, 2011 at 1:00pm

I think it comes from the Spanish term for Ingredients, which is "Materia Prima" which directly translated would be "Raw Ingredients."  I imagine that's what Mr. Andrade meant, and did not understand the more trendy "Raw" definition of uncooked, which in Spanish would be "crudo(a)."

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Permalink Reply by Iván Andrade on May 8, 2011 at 11:32am

Cheebs,  

Thanks for your clarification... Brad, in fact, I was referring to cocoa as a raw material (materia prima) and not as uncooked, so that kind of equipment suggested, in any case the only comment I can make the processing of raw cocoa, is to be aseptically treated as natural state contains many germs dangerous to health, which to toast the grain to temperatures between 120 to 150 ℃ for 40 minutes or more, are removed.

Kind regards,

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Permalink Reply by Ice Blocks! on May 10, 2011 at 8:40pm

One of the problems I have with the idea of raw cacao (< 45 Centrigrade) is whether the chocolate flavour is fully developed without some kind of roasting.

We do use raw cacao powder and I also note it's slightly more bitter / lighter colour than roasted cacao. Is that others experience?

 

 

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Permalink Reply by Brad Churchill on May 10, 2011 at 9:45pm

How do you know the cocoa powder is raw?  Do you make it yourself?  If so, I would love to hear how you keep the temperature of the mass you are pressing into cake, below 45 degrees C.

 

Here's a quote from page 70 of Bernard Minifie's Chocolate, Cocoa, and Confectionary:

 

Temperature of the Liquor

In modern practice, th ebest results are obtained at 95 to 105 degrees C (203 to 221 degrees F).

 

Here is a GREAT quote on page 79 about microbiological content of cocoa:

 

The raw fermented cocoa beans arriving in the factory have very high bacteria count (5X10 to the 6th), and during the cleaning, roasting, and winnowing processes, dust is producted that can contaminate finished products.  It is very necessary to isolate these first processes from subsequent production.

. . .

Many cocoas purchased on the open market have much higher counts (50X10 to the 3rd).

. . .

Meursing (1983) has discussed at length the implications of contamination and has proposed very rigid specifications for cocoa powder.  He states that, with the ever increasing use of vending machines, instant foods, and large-scale catering where adequeate conditions for sterilization are not used, strict bacterial control of the basid food product is essential.

 

Now... having said all of that I have two questions:  If you walked into our shop and watched one of my staff members drop a truffle on the floor (which we degrease and sterilize every night), and you didn't know that we did that to our floor, would you pop the truffle in your mouth?  PROBABLY NOT!  In fact you'd be grossed and probably pretty pissed off out if we put it in your box and sold it to you.

 

My next question then is:  Why the heck do people find it fine and dandy to eat a product that is fermented and dried on the ground where bugs, chickens, dogs, and people defecate, spit, throw their cigarette butts, and god knows what else without it first being sanitized? 

 

People are strange....

 

...just my two bits for what it's worth.

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Permalink Reply by Ice Blocks! on May 10, 2011 at 10:31pm

"Do you make it yourself? If so, I would love to hear how you keep the temperature of the mass you are pressing into cake, below 45 degrees C."

 

No but have a look at the Big Tree Farms videos on YouTube it shows how they press butter from the mass quite effectively below 45 degrees C. 

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