Chocolate and Honey

Comment

Comment by Colin Green on February 17, 2013 at 8:55pm

Hi Linda and Mark,

Linda, sorry for my slow response. I get totally SQUASHED here at times! :-)

I use Sicao milk chocolate - I don't try to make it myself. I am in awe of people that do that sort of thing but I need to get product made up and sold as soon as possible. So I buy it in, melt & temper and get it bagged and sold. Sicao is actually made in Singapore and is owned by Barry Callebaut so quality is very high.

I started this business in some desparation after there was a LOT less demand for my training services (I train people in the art of Exhibition Marketing - website is at http://www.bestofshow.com for anyone interested). So I am a product of the GFC. And it's working out OK.

Like you, I like to experiment and do a bit of R&D although I am VERY focussed on making it pay. I knew nothing of chocolate not so long ago and it's probably that that encouarges me to do stuff that any sane person would KNOW is impossible. Like panning chocolate covered coffee beans and adding real cranberries or cherries or Australian bush Peach (quandong) into the chocolate. These are on my new website http://www.captainchocolate.com.au  in case anyone is tempted to see what a shunned Expo Trainer dreams about! :-)  The Chocolate Life is simply wonderful for this!

I would LOVE to catch up if I get back to your beautiful Arizona! I used to subscribe to "Arizona Highways" after I visited and became enchanted with your home state. If you get "down under" to Sydney DO contact me and came and say "Hi!".

Mark - I can answer some of your questions. Creamed honey is simply liquid honey that has been seeded so that crystals form. You will get very coarse crystals if you simply leave liquid honey for a few weeks/months. But you can attain nice fine crystals by adding in nice finely crystalized honey to your liquid honey. So, bottom line, it's basically tha same thing and liquid is easier to use.

I am in Australia so I use local product. But you can do the same no matter where you are. Dried honey has additives to make it stay powder and this makes it grainy and has a bad mouth feel. Check up Wikipedia - it's GREAT! I got some in and could not make it work and after a long caht with the manufacturer found that no-one here is using it (that they know of).

Clay made the rather radical comment that larger amounts of water won't make chocolate seize - which really surprised me. Only small amounts do. Honey is 15-15% water so I tried it out and it worked a treat!  I HAVE used Mycryo (Barry Callebaut's dried cocoa butter) to thin the chocolate but wonder if I need to - more experimenting coming...

I used local "Yellow Box" honey but you could use anything you have. I got mine from the supermarket as I saw no reason to get complicated. It really IS quite good. I used a fair amount in my second batch as the chocolate rather overpowers the honey.

Take some care with your honey selection. My wife is a teacher and is VERY aware of allergens. One of our honeys - Manuka - causes allergies in some people. Ask around in case some of yours do the same. Check Google.  Maybe even get a doctor's appointment and pay your doctor for the information and/or ask teachers if you know any.

Hope this is helpful :-)

Colin

Comment by Mark J Sciscenti on February 15, 2013 at 9:47am

Hi Colin, Hi everyone - This is a great post on how to use honey in chocolate. I've been under the assumption that you can't use it with tempered chocolate as well. This post has changed my mind - which is a GREAT thing as I am about to embark on my idea of making my historic drinking chocolates in a bar form. My Mesoamerican drinking chocolates cannot be sweetened with anything other then honey or agave (has anyone tried agave). These drinks have a lot of spices and some with ground nuts so I would hazard a guess and say that these additional ingredients would take up the water content in the honey.

How about using creamed honey?

Colin, what brand was your "dried honey?" or where did you get that? I am also looking at using a dried honey but have has a hell of a time finding a good source (Clay remembers my question on that).

Linda, your idea of adding cocoa butter to the mix to help the viscosity. BTW - what is Mycryo? Have not heard of that company - any suggestions as to a good quality cocoa butter at a decent price, and preferably "organic?"

Dang, this makes me quite happy!

Thanks for this! - Mark

Comment by Linda Crawford on February 7, 2013 at 8:50am

Awesome so glad it worked for you.  Glad you reported back on your experiment. Now back at you with a question.  How are you making your milk chocolate?  My mother loves milk chocolate and caramel and mother's day will be upon us soon.  Oh, also, if we every get to your neck of the world we would be more than happy to drop by and see what you have going on.  The invitation is also extended to you and yours as well..if ever in our area of southern Arizona you are more than welcome to drop on by.

Comment by Colin Green on February 6, 2013 at 10:18pm

Just reporting back as to how this worked out...

I have now made two batches of chocolate coated ginger with honey. One dark (70%) and the other milk (36%).

Linda and Clay's advice was spot on! Although there is water in the honey adding a decent dollop does not seize it! I am still experimenting to get the right amount but you can certainly pop a good amount in without anything seemingly going wrong.

The dark has come out beatifully tempered and has polished very well indeed. The milk seems to be excellent too but I am letting it settle before polishing later today.

Thanks so very much for your help guys!

Colin :-)

Comment by Colin Green on February 4, 2013 at 5:35am

Linda, DO try milk chocolate. I find it much easier to work with and an added bonus is that it is generally more popular with buyers. Many people don't feel that white chocoate IS chocolate and many are concerned for the sugar content so I always leave that at the bottom of the list for trials.

I too love R&D but in a commercial reality I have to make a dollar. So while I like to paly I have to temper that with survival.

If you ever come to Australia do try to come to Sydney. Melbourne tends to be the "food captital" and there is quite a lot of chocolate in the Brisbane area. Sydney tends to be quite humid which is a problem for chocolate but it's a magic place to be! I'd be delighted to show you around my setup!

Kind regards

Colin :-)

Comment by Linda Crawford on January 31, 2013 at 9:36pm

Colin:

I haven't tried making milk chocolate.  I have played with making white chocolate, which I did get to kinda work.  I love dark chocolate and not a fan of milk...though I know some of our clients would love it.  I haven't researched how folks make milk chocolate..but I am sure it has been talked about on the boards. I love R&D!  I am doing more chocolate work tomorrow so I will take Clay's suggestion and see if 115F works.  I always test my temper before I mold or enrobe.  Thanks for all the information.  I had not heard of Mycryo until now so nice bit of information.  I use cocoa butter because some of our clients don't like lecithin or dairy in their chocolate and it smells really good! I love it..even though it does cost a little more.  Thanks for the fun conversation.  We would love to go to Australia, but not in the cards right now.

Comment by Colin Green on January 31, 2013 at 9:04pm

Hmmm - thanks Clay!

I have been fortunate in that I have been able to negotiate a good deal for Mycryo to the point where it does make a huge difference. But I have been interested in comments from others about shaving solid cocoa butter for tempering and I will get some in to try. It's about a third of the price of Mycryo but I don't use a lot either.

Thanks for your thoughts on the temperature. That is always a concern for me!  Planning on making them early next week - humidity is really high here in Sydney at the moment which is SUPER bad for polishing in the pan!

Comment by Clay Gordon on January 31, 2013 at 8:45pm

Colin:

Mycryo is interesting but very expensive. You can shave/grate tempered cocoa butter very finely and have much the same effect. 

Think about ganaches. What is cream but water and fat? It works because there is enough water in the cream. You don't need a lot, even butter works. If you're having trouble incorporating, melt/temper the chocolate first.

You don't need to get to 120F, 115F should be more than enough.

Comment by Colin Green on January 31, 2013 at 6:55pm

Linda, you seem to be using dark choclate for your honey. Have you tried milk choclate too?

Thanks!

Colin :-)

Comment by Colin Green on January 31, 2013 at 6:54pm

Thanks so much for these insights Clay & Linda. REALLY helpful.

Clay, I had NO idea that there was a "point of pain" that one could drive through as regards water and chocolate where the chocolate would not seize. Logic told me that if a drop of water would seize then a larger amount would be horrible! So much for logic :-)  Now I can't wait to try this out.

Your comments re the temperature are very valuable. 120F (48.9C) is surely higher than I would usually work. But I'll use that.

I have been following a really cool guy named "Chef Eddy" (www.chefeddy.com) who you might know. He tempers with cocoa butter and this seems to work in REALLY well with what you are both saying too. I have been using Callebaut's Mycryo but Eddy suggests using their block cocoa butter for reasons of cost and control. I will try this.

Clay, you are so right about the honey down here. Both Australia and New Zealand have amazing honey. Manuka (NZ) is incredible as is Yellow Box (Aussie). You have given me and idea - identify the honey type used. Makes it rather more authentic!

Linda - LOVED your web page! Such interesting information! I especially liked your blog. I have been to some of the places you mention such as South Dakota and Arizona and as an Aussie you took me back. LOVE your committment to your local produce.

I have been working on "local produce" too - for me it's Australian. One is "Bushtucker Chocolate Coffee Beans" (https://www.captaincoffee.com.au/bushtucker-chocolate-covered-coffe...) and now I'll see what I can do with Clay's idea with local honey.

Thanks Guys!

Colin :-)

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