what use it is given to the shell of the cocoa beans

mariano garcia
@mariano-garcia
04/27/15 04:42:42PM
62 posts

I roasted cocoa beans and many have already separated from the seed husk. that I can do with it?


updated by @mariano-garcia: 06/16/15 09:02:56PM
Sebastian
@sebastian
04/27/15 05:20:44PM
720 posts

What to do with the shell?  Mulch (but it will attract bugs).  Burn it?

Absolutely do NOT use it for anything edible.  Shell is notoriously high in heavy metals and mycotoxins and all sorts of stuff that you don't want to eat.

mariano garcia
@mariano-garcia
04/27/15 05:41:56PM
62 posts

Thanks Sebastian, you are very wise!

mariano garcia
@mariano-garcia
04/27/15 05:43:09PM
62 posts

you can use it as fertilizer on land?

Sebastian
@sebastian
04/27/15 05:51:14PM
720 posts

Wide - perhaps - not sure about wise 8-)  Certainly it could be used for fertilizer.  I'm not sure how much nitrogen or phosphorous it has, but shells do have a fair amount of potassium in them.

Juan Pablo Buchert
@juan-pablo-buchert
04/27/15 11:38:14PM
8 posts

The James Cooper PLC is turning the shells of cocoa beans into paper

http://www.cropper.com/news/post.php?s=2014-01-17-sweet-innovation-as-cocoa-waste-is-transformed 


updated by @juan-pablo-buchert: 07/11/16 08:57:39PM
Aura
@aura
06/02/15 10:38:49PM
16 posts

We put our roasted shells in our compost that we use on our garden beds.  Is this unwise?

Lyndon
@lyndon
06/03/15 03:23:09AM
9 posts

What about those companies making brewing cocoa from the shell?

Sebastian
@sebastian
06/03/15 02:02:52PM
720 posts

Completely fine to use as compost.  Fantastically terrible idea to use as a brewed item for consumption.

Katie Wilson
@kyle-wilson
06/03/15 10:06:13PM
18 posts

Just curious where I can find material on the husks. People say its full of metals but I have had no luck finding much on it. And more and more people are consuming them.

Juan Pablo Buchert
@juan-pablo-buchert
06/03/15 11:15:08PM
8 posts

@sebastian  Would you consider that after roasting at, let say, 120ºC/250ºF for 35-45 minutes the micotoxins are still present?


updated by @juan-pablo-buchert: 07/12/16 06:53:42AM
Sebastian
@sebastian
06/04/15 06:30:54AM
720 posts

Yes.  Consumption of shell based products is a fantastically terrible idea.  Lots of discussion here already on the boards covering the why's of that.

Lyndon
@lyndon
06/04/15 07:30:22AM
9 posts

Do companies like Crio Bru not have to prove their products are safe for consumption?

Sebastian
@sebastian
06/04/15 07:55:59AM
720 posts

i'm not familiar with them.  i think it's safe to say that every day, people do things that they shouldn't do simply because they don't know any better.  If the burden of safety was applied universally, cigarettes would not exist 8-)  Studies have shown over and over again that if you believe something's ok, you're going to do it regardsess of what the actual data says.  Thats' the reason we've got a raw chocolate movement that won't go away.  And the reason why people will keep trying to drink things loaded with heavy metals, pesticides, and mycotoxins.

Lyndon
@lyndon
06/04/15 08:04:29AM
9 posts

True enough, I guess there is a big difference between "safe" and "safe enough" ;)

Sebastian
@sebastian
06/04/15 10:07:35AM
720 posts

I'd say the entire practice is a single lawsuit away from oblivion.  I certainly wouldn't build a business on it.

TalamancaOrganica
@talamanca-organica-cacao-fine-chocolate
06/16/15 11:09:52AM
12 posts

Actually, many people make tea from the shells. I am not sure where Sebastian gets his information about heavy metals in the shells (???) Where did that come from? I personally farm about a half a ton a year of cacao on my farm, organically, and I have no idea where the "heavy metals" could come from. Actually, I have many tourists who visit my farm from Europe who ask me to buy my shells, as they say that they are extremely expensive in Europe. They choose to make tea from them they say that the nutritional qualities are higher in the shell. 
We here at Talamanca Organica Cacao and Fine Chocolate use the shells as mulch in our vegatable garden, that is if we are not giving them away to tea drinkers.  Recently I had a guy ask me for the shells to use as smoke. (I thought wow, now there is a novel idea!) He twisted up some fresh shells right out of my winnower and smoked away. I had a puff or two and I must say, it was nice and smooth and nothing like tabacco or other smoke that gets you dizzy and high. This shell had a marvelous taste of chocolate, that was quite appealing! with no after affect. It burned very well, but then again, it was fresh roasted.
Additionally, I have made Kumbutcha from the shells for personal consumption, and it was quite nice, too. I am sure we can think of a million other things to do with the shells. And I would really like to hear more about these so called heavy metals in the shells? 


updated by @talamanca-organica-cacao-fine-chocolate: 07/06/16 04:37:48AM
Juan Pablo Buchert
@juan-pablo-buchert
06/16/15 12:19:00PM
8 posts

Hello Peter, I found this information from the Codex Alimentarium, which supports Sebastian´s warning:  CODE OF PRACTICE FOR THE PREVENTION AND REDUCTION OF OCHRATOXIN A CONTAMINATION IN COCOA (CAC/RCP 72-2013 www.codexalimentarius.org/input/download/standards/.../CXP_072e.pdf  

 Please note item 7:  "(...)  only the stage of shell removal can significantly reduce OTA levels."

 Therefore, no cocoa tea made from shells for my kid.  

 Regarding heavy metals, i.e. Cd & Pb, are relatively common in volcanic soils.  At the Fine Cacao Chamber of Costa Rica, we are developing a project to identify the correlation of Cd content in soil, beans and 70% couverture.  More information with Dr. Carlos Hernandez from Universidad Nacional de Costa Rica (cherna @ una.ac.cr) 


updated by @juan-pablo-buchert: 07/12/16 11:59:26PM
TalamancaOrganica
@talamanca-organica-cacao-fine-chocolate
06/16/15 09:04:56PM
12 posts

One of the first processing steps involves roasting of cocoa that consists in a heat treatment of the beans at 110–140 °C for about 30 min for beans and 12 min for nibs, depending on the equipment. The primary goal of roasting is to complete the development of the chemical reactions responsible for the formation of sensory characteristics of flavour and colour of ‘chocolate’ (Kamphuis, 2009 and Ziegleder, 2009). In addition, there is an important decrease in the water content, volatile acidity (Minifie, 1999) and microbial contamination of cocoa beans (ICMSF, 2005). After roasting the separation of the shell is facilitated, being removed by winnowing. The cotyledon is now breakable, which produces the nibs. The nibs are ground to form a fluid mass of a dark brown colour called liquor (also called cocoa mass when solidified by cooling). The temperature used in this process is 50–70 °C, during a variable time of 2–72 h, depending on the equipment and cocoa quality and the required chocolate quality (Beckett, 2008). The homogeneous combination of cocoa materials (liquor and butter) with milk products, sugars and/or sweeteners, and other additives, produces the chocolate (Codex Alimentarius., 2003). The process occurs at temperatures between 45 and 100 °C (Minifie, 1999) and at this stage a reduction in acidity and moisture content is observed, and the Maillard reaction is enhanced. Some steps of cocoa processing involve heat treatment or segregation of fractions, which can play an important role in the reduction of contamination of cocoa by ochratoxin A. The purpose of this study is to determine the natural contamination present in cocoa by-products and to evaluate the effect of the chocolate manufacturing process on the reduction of ochratoxin A contamination in chocolate.


updated by @talamanca-organica-cacao-fine-chocolate: 07/06/16 04:37:34AM
Sebastian
@sebastian
06/18/15 07:05:27AM
720 posts

Talamanca - sorry for the late response.  I'm going to go out on a limb here and suggest that you've never actually conducted an analytical study of heavy metals in cocoa shells, have you?  It's incredibly well understood in the chocolate world that heavy metals are concentrated in the shell of cocoa beans from two sources:

1) In C. (and in some places in S.) America, where the soils are volcanic - its very well established that volcanic soils are higher in heavy metals vs their non-volcanic counterparts.  Specifically cadmium.  Plants will incorporate the nutrients of the soils in which they grow into their biology - and for cocoa, cadmium becomes concentrated in the cocoa bean shell.

2) Many origins incorporate drying of the beans along the roadside.  In areas of the world where leaded gasoline is still used, that lead is deposited onto the road surface and subsequently transferred to whatever foodstuffs are dried on said road.

I'd suggest that the arguement of 'i've made cocoa tea personally and i loved it!' and 'i've fed it to tourists and they said it was quite nice' and 'many people do it' is not a solid scientific proof that heavy metals are absent from the shells.  By those arguements cigarette smoking would be classifed as a healthy practice.  If you have the ability to control the growing conditions as well as the drying conditions (ala mycotoxins - i'll not repost info relative to that as it's already on the boards somewhere), then by all means consume the shells.  However, after spending a couple of decades leading cocoa research around the world at arguably the highest level possible, i've yet to see any cocoa grower/fermenter that has the capability to sufficiently control this to guarantee a food safe practice.  You can reference all the above studies that you wish (i've written many of them) - I guarantee you will not find anyone who is actually in the industry that has published a scientific, peer reviewed journal that suggests the practice is food safe.

If you choose to ingest poisions, that is your personal choice.  For you to suggest that it is safe for others to do so and offer it for sale to them while simultanesouly assuring them it's safe and yet not having conducted any studies (worse yet, actively ignoring all the studies that indicate otherwise) to validate that it is indeed so is highly, highly irresponsible and immoral.  

Lyndon
@lyndon
06/18/15 07:11:31AM
9 posts

While we're on the subject of heavy metals, it was mentioned higher up about using the shells in your garden. Would you avoid using it around edible plants?


updated by @lyndon: 09/07/15 06:26:04PM
Sebastian
@sebastian
06/18/15 06:22:12PM
720 posts

I wouldn't  be so concerned about that actually.  There will be some uptake of it by your plants to be sure, but most of it will simply wash away in the rain.  I'd think the actual plant uptake would be small (but i've nothing but my opinion to support that).

TalamancaOrganica
@talamanca-organica-cacao-fine-chocolate
06/25/15 11:51:25AM
12 posts

 Hola Sebastian from the coastal slopes of Caribbean Costa Rica. Thank you for your information. No, I currently not conducted my own scientific analysis of my soil over the past 20 plus years of farming cacao. Yes, I am in the process of conducting this analysis in soil, as well as genetic heritage of my trees. The prior owner of our farm, Mr. Rolegio Smith from Punta Uva, owned and worked the farm for 70 plus years before I bought it from him. And before that his family, The notable Downer family worked the larger farm (including what is now mine) for a 85 plus years before that. These peoole never lived on the land; they only lived out on the beach area, and worked the "farm" from dawn until afternoon. There were no roads, at all here until the 1980's as the Province of Limon was a restricted province to keep the Black people and Jungle at bay. It wasn't until 1950's that Black people could even leave the Province and go to the capital.
Before that (1700's) it was all Indigeneous land which the artifacts in the soil reveal as well. But really really, where we are here is "new land" so to speak, recently arisen from the sea. It is not uncommon to see coral deposits nearby and I have even seen this 1Km inland, on the top of a high hill with 400 year old Almond Trees growing out of them! So, all in all we can conclude that the land near at the home of Talamanca Organica is recently risen from the sea (within the last 1000 of years or so), quite far from the alluvial flow of the volcanic region of Costa Rica. Heck, we don't even have any native rock here....it is all clay rock. You have to travel way out to the River Sixaola or the River Chirripo to get any rock, hence why gravel costs a fortune here.
So, yes, I can understand where alluvial flow soils typical of Central and South America would contain Cadium, and other heavy metals. And yes, I see the practice here in the province of locals drying cacao on the roadside. WE, here at Talamanca Organica sun dry our cacao in our farm, and then our cacao is stored daily on clean organic cotton linen, untl it is complete dry; and then in airtight containers. Just yesturday I was sunnin up a ferment from Nov 2014, and I have to tell you that it is as beateous as ever, with amazing aroma and a lovely fruity taste, and only sundried.
If you are ever in my neck of the woods, and you would like to tour my sustainable, organic, regenerative cacao farm, I invite you. And if you have your handy soil testing kit, I would love to offer my soil for your review. You will see that the Superior taste in our beans in multi-fold. First off, it's organic, second, it's grown in harmony with the forest (and that is taste worthy), and it is fermented with prestige and sundried exclusively with our expertise. 
Thanks you very much for sharing your experience, and i hope one day you try our beans. 
And yes, I agree with you, people can ingest poison in they so choose. I do not. And I hold that principle in my agricultural practices. I am fascinated, though with the European love of the cacao shell, and the high demand amongst the European tourist. Yep, few Americans are even interested in it at all.... and it was an Isreali who discovered smoking it....I never thought of it before that. Pura vida, Christina.


updated by @talamanca-organica-cacao-fine-chocolate: 07/06/16 01:15:37AM
Sebastian
@sebastian
06/26/15 06:18:31AM
720 posts

That's great Christina - Costa Rica is one of my favorite places on Earth.  I'm absolutely in love with it. I considered buying properety there at one point, however the squatters laws made that problematic for me in that i'd need to visit my property every 3 (or was it 6?) months to ensure no one had moved in.  If they did, and i didn't remove them, they could claim the property as their own.

You may wish to connect with CATIE (http://www.catie.ac.cr/) if you've not already as a local research connection.  The watchout with clay is that it often doesn't contain much cadmium, but it can be very high in lead.

Cheers

Katie Wilson
@kyle-wilson
06/28/15 02:29:13PM
18 posts

I'd like to add something to this conversation in regards to making Tea. Now it has been said its composed of heavy metals, but when brewing tea, you're dissolving solids, etc into your solution - have there been studies done for how many (if any) metals make their way into a tea?

We as a business are interested in using the husks and are going to submit samples for a 3rd party analysis to see on average what the husks are composed on  when done well update you all with our findings  

 

 


updated by @kyle-wilson: 06/28/15 02:35:12PM
Sebastian
@sebastian
06/28/15 09:35:59PM
720 posts

Heavy metal soluability in water is very well understood.  A few examples below.  Remember heavy metals aren't your only concern.  Note that heat is largely an ineffective treatment for aflatoxins as aflatoxins tend to recombine in acidic environments (such as with the acid in your stomach, for example)

http://www.water.ncsu.edu/watershedss/info/hmetals.html

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2003/5/chemistry

Daniel Haran
@daniel-haran
01/10/17 06:50:51PM
47 posts

Sebastian, do you know if using the shells for smoking food is also a bad idea?

(I haven't done so and wouldn't recommend it without knowing it's safe. It's plausible that metals would stay in ash and fungus would not survive burning)

Sebastian
@sebastian
01/12/17 12:33:57AM
720 posts

You know I was going to try that this summer, actually.  I suspect it's not a very good idea, to be honest, but I was going to try it nonetheless (do as i say, not as i do?).  That said, i never did get around to trying it...

Daniel Haran
@daniel-haran
01/12/17 12:54:59AM
47 posts

Hah, cool. Maybe I'll ask a friend to help do a test for taste - and if that passes, ask a lab to run tests?

As a precaution, it's probably best to do it with a fairly clean shell from a non-volcanic soil.

Sebastian
@sebastian
01/12/17 01:02:40AM
720 posts

Lead melts at what, 620F or so, and aflatoxin (lets use aflatoxin a, since it's the most carcinogenic) breaks down at about 356F.  I've never measured the temperature in at the smoke point source, but it'd suspect it's above 356.  Lead is not going to decompose, but it could aerosolize and redeposit itself on your foods i'd wager.

And now i'm hungry for brisket.

Katie Wilson
@kyle-wilson
01/19/17 04:20:11PM
18 posts

I mentioned a while ago about having a lab analyze our husk, and it happened shortly thereafter. It took a while to remember to put the results online, so here they are. We gave two samples, one as the husk, and the other as the husk ground. From what we were told, there is nothing concerning about lead in the husks we gave. We were also told the makeup was similar in a sense to a banana peel. 

Anyways, For those who are interested here it is. Would love to hear your thoughts.

pdf
Scan.pdf  •  9.9MB

Daniel Haran
@daniel-haran
01/19/17 04:31:17PM
47 posts

As leaded gasoline is phased out, lead is less of an issue. Cadmium is still worrisome because of volcanic soils.

Did you analyze for moulds, by any chance?

Daniel Haran
@daniel-haran
01/19/17 04:33:01PM
47 posts

I don't know if that cadmium amount is anything to worry about. Any technical people care to comment?

Kyle, can you share the origin for the beans?

Katie Wilson
@kyle-wilson
01/19/17 05:06:45PM
18 posts

We are going to bring the husk in for another analysis, which could happen after more people weigh in. Then we can focus on other compositions

Clay Gordon
@clay
01/19/17 05:28:02PM
1,616 posts

Lyndon:

Do companies like Crio Bru not have to prove their products are safe for consumption?

Crio Bru is made from ground roasted cocoa beans. No shell involved.




--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
clay - http://www.thechocolatelife.com/clay/
Peter3
@peter3
01/19/17 08:46:20PM
78 posts

If I read and understand the results of this test correctly the cadmium content is 1.57 micro gram per gram. 

In Australia the limit for cadmium content in the chocolate is 0.5 micro gram per gram. Some other countries have similar limits some have no limits.

If the cadmium content in the nib was at the same level as in the shell you could use these beans to make a chocolate with cocoa mass content of no more than 30%.

Fortunately usually cadmium content in the nibs is lower than in the shell, but it should be tested before use.

Sebastian
@sebastian
01/20/17 03:39:26PM
720 posts

that doesn't look at all like a central or south american metals profile to me.

i'd never advise you to do something consumable with the shell.  you are likely nowhere near being in control of your supply chain, which means what you will recieve over time will almost assuredly be different than the snapshot you take at your analysis.  mycotoxins will be a concern.

Lyndon
@lyndon
01/22/17 08:07:12AM
9 posts

Clay Gordon:

Crio Bru is made from ground roasted cocoa beans. No shell involved.

Ah my mistake, I'm not sure why I thought it was shell.

Tags

Share This

Member Marketplace


Activity

chocolover14
 
@chocolover14 • 3 hours ago • comments: 0
Posted a response to "Trip through the great lakes packed with chocolates."
"That sounds fun, Kerry. And I checked the itinerary again and the cruise is available only for the summer holidays. I wish to book the trip for..."
danielle2
 
@danielle2 • 11 hours ago • comments: 0
Posted a response to "F/S - Santha 20 Melangeur"
"Hi I sent an email to the email above. "
danielle2
 
@danielle2 • 11 hours ago • comments: 0
Created a new forum topic:
Colombian cacao and cocoa butter.
RegardsSent
 
@regardssent • 13 hours ago • comments: 0
Jean-Marie Auboine
 
@jean-marie-auboine • 14 hours ago • comments: 0
Posted a response to "FOR SALE FULLY AUTOMATIC TEMPERING MACHINE 20KG CHOCOLUTION BAKON USA"
" RegardsSent: Hello, Have  you sold your Bakon  tempering Equipment?  If not I would be interested in photos and details. Thank you Hello..."
Lyndon
 
@lyndon • 19 hours ago • comments: 0
Posted a response to "what use it is given to the shell of the cocoa beans"
" Clay Gordon: Crio Bru is made from ground roasted cocoa beans. No shell involved. Ah my mistake, I'm not sure why I thought it was shell."
Andy Koller
 
@andy-k • yesterday • comments: 0
Posted a response to "Help needed for a pest issue - 'warehouse moth'"
"Sebastian - is it important for the dried but raw cacao beans to have airflow? If yes, why? Because of the moisture content of about 7%?Thanks for..."